Episode 65: Grow Your Podcast & Email List Without Being Tied To Social Media with Tracy Beavers
Is Facebook Dead? How to Grow Your Podcast and Email List Without Relying on Social Media
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If you’ve been wondering whether Facebook is still worth your time… or if there’s a better way to grow your podcast and email list without constantly posting on social media, this episode is going to challenge what you think you know.
Because here’s the truth:
Organic growth is not dead.
Email lists are not dead.
And Facebook? Definitely not dead.
In this episode of Podcast Growth Tools, I sit down with Tracy Beavers, a list growth and visibility expert, to unpack what’s actually working right now when it comes to building an audience, growing your email list, and turning your podcast into a powerful business tool.
We dive into organic visibility strategies, relationship-driven marketing, podcast growth tactics, and how to build an ecosystem that works for you without being glued to social media 24/7.
In This Episode, You’ll Learn:
Why Facebook is still one of the most underrated platforms for organic growth
How to build an organic visibility ecosystem that grows your email list automatically
Why most podcasters struggle to convert listeners into subscribers
The biggest mistakes podcasters make when trying to grow their audience
How to use podcast swaps and collaborations to grow faster
Why quizzes and curated podcast playlists outperform traditional lead magnets
How to use DMs and conversations to generate content ideas and attract ideal clients
Whether lead magnets are actually “dead” in 2026
How to build a newsletter people actually want to open
Timestamps
00:00 – Is Facebook dead? And what we’re really talking about today
02:20 – Introduction to the podcast and what you’ll learn
03:35 – Podcast swaps and why they work so well
04:30 – Meet Tracy Beavers and her organic visibility strategy
08:30 – What an organic visibility ecosystem looks like
10:50 – Why Facebook is still a powerful growth platform
12:30 – Where to start if you want to grow on Facebook
16:00 – Using DMs and voice messages to build relationships
22:20 – Biggest mistakes podcasters make with email list growth
25:00 – Why podcast quizzes and playlists are so effective
28:00 – What metrics actually matter for podcast growth
30:45 – Organic ways to promote your podcast without social media overload
33:00 – How to start authentic collaborations
35:15 – Are lead magnets dead in 2026?
38:00 – What types of lead magnets still work today
40:00 – Building a newsletter people actually want to read
Why Facebook (and Community-Based Platforms) Still Work
One of the biggest myths we address in this conversation is whether Facebook is “dead.”
And the answer is no.
In fact, Facebook is still one of the most powerful platforms for building community and growing your email list organically—especially through groups and relationships.
Tracy shares how she built her multi-six-figure business using Facebook organically, without relying on ads or constant content creation.
Her approach focuses on creating what she calls an organic visibility ecosystem, where you:
Show up consistently in the right communities
Build relationships through conversations
Position your personal profile as a conversion tool
Let your ecosystem work for you over time
Instead of spending hours trying to “go viral,” you’re creating consistent visibility in places where your ideal audience already exists.
The Power of Relationship-Driven Marketing
A major theme throughout this episode is that 2026 is the year of relationships and community.
People are craving real connection more than ever.
That means the strategies that work best right now are:
Direct conversations
Voice messages
Personalized interactions
Genuine collaboration
For example, instead of focusing on creating endless content, you can:
Send voice messages to new followers
Start conversations in DMs
Answer questions inside communities
Build relationships with other entrepreneurs
These simple actions often lead to:
Podcast listeners
Email subscribers
New clients
Without needing to constantly post on social media.
How to Turn Podcast Listeners Into Email Subscribers
We also dive into one of the biggest gaps I see with podcasters.
Many people are creating great content, but they are not effectively turning listeners into email subscribers.
Here are the most common mistakes:
1. No clear call-to-action
Many podcasters rely on show notes or vague CTAs instead of clearly telling listeners what to do next.
2. Generic lead magnets
A single freebie doesn’t resonate with every listener because your audience is at different stages.
3. Not leveraging existing content
Your podcast episodes can and should be repurposed into:
Playlists
Bundles
Lead magnets
Funnels
4. No connection between podcast and email strategy
Your podcast and email list should work together as one cohesive system.
Why Podcast Quizzes and Playlists Work So Well
One of the most powerful strategies we talk about in this episode is using a podcast-centric quiz.
Here’s why this works:
Instead of sending new listeners to your entire podcast library, you guide them to a curated experience.
For example:
A listener takes a quiz
They receive personalized results
They’re given a custom podcast playlist based on those results
This creates:
A highly relevant listening experience
Faster trust-building
More binge-worthy content
A smoother path to your offers
Instead of hoping they find the right episode, you’re guiding them directly to it.
The Shift Away From Traditional Lead Magnets
We also talk about whether lead magnets are still effective.
The answer is yes—but only if they provide real value.
What’s not working anymore:
Basic checklists
Generic PDFs
Surface-level downloads
What is working:
Interactive experiences like quizzes
High-value resources with real transformation
Industry insights and “state of the union” content
Personalized recommendations
The key is giving your audience something they can’t easily get from AI or a quick search.
Why Your Newsletter Might Be Your Best Growth Tool
One of the most important takeaways from this episode is the role of your newsletter.
Instead of treating your email list as a place to promote your podcast, your newsletter should be:
A deeper layer of support
A place to share insights and updates
A way to build trust and connection
A consistent value-driven experience
When done well, your newsletter becomes:
A key part of your brand
A major driver of engagement
A direct path to conversions
And this is where your podcast audience can naturally move next.
If you want to grow your podcast without constantly posting, here are the strategies we recommend:
Guest on other podcasts or do podcast swaps
Collaborate with entrepreneurs who share your audience
Teach inside other communities
Create podcast playlists or bundles
Use SEO-driven episode titles and keywords
Build relationships through DMs and conversations
These strategies allow you to grow sustainably, without relying on trends or algorithms.
If You’re Asking Yourself…
“Do I really need to be on social media to grow my podcast?”
“How do I turn podcast listeners into email subscribers?”
“Are lead magnets still worth creating?”
“What’s actually working for organic marketing right now?”
“How do I grow my podcast without burning out?”
You’re in the right place.
Your Next Steps
If you want weekly insights on podcast growth, marketing strategy, and turning listeners into subscribers, join the newsletter at:
Resources & Links
Connect with Tracy
Website: https://www.tracybeavers.com
Tracy’s podcast: Create Online Business Success
Tracy’s Facebook group: Be a Confident Entrepreneur
Connect with Kylee
Website: podcastmarketinghub.com
Podcast: Podcast Growth Tools
Instagram: @kyleejchandler
Let’s Connect!
Share your favorite trend from this episode or ask questions by DMing me on Instagram at @thepodcastmarketinghub.
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Kylee Chandler (00:00.236)
Okay, do you think Facebook is dead? I had to ask my guests this question because I thought Facebook is dead. I literally thought my parents and their friends were the only people hanging out on Facebook. Maybe it's just me, I don't know. But today's podcast episode was so good. I know so many people ask, how can I grow my podcast? How can I grow my business without creating social media content consistently all the time? And today's podcast is going to share that with you. So,
My guest is Tracy Beavers and she is a list growth and visibility expert. And her and I actually were connected because she was in my beta group last summer, fall, and I fell in love with her. And so we actually did a little bit of a podcast swap, but my goodness, we had so much fun going back and forth, sharing tons of knowledge around almost different strategies that you can be using to grow your email list, grow your podcast organically.
and through really relationships and authentically showing up versus paying for ads or posting a reel all the time or a TikTok or whatever you name it. We really dove into it. We give you so many good strategies. We debunk things like is Facebook dead? Are lead magnets dead in 2026? What's the right way to do things? This was a phenomenal interview. We had so much fun. So I know you're going to love it. So go ahead, dive in. And of course, if you
feel like this serves you so well, please share it with the other entrepreneurs in your life, the other podcasters. And if you are not on my email list, go ahead, get on my email list. I talk about it a lot in this podcast. I talk about how my newsletter is unique. My open rates are amazing. And that is because I have such a jam packed value driven newsletter that I sent out every single week. It is not just me sharing what podcast episode
went out that week. It's so much value. So if you're not on there yet, go ahead, go to podcastmarketinghub.com forward slash subscribe. You can get on my newsletter and you can join the thousands of people who are on my newsletter who get podcast industry updates, network, networking events, so much good juicy data, a little behind the scenes of what I'm up to. And yeah, you're going to love this episode. Thank you so much for being here and I'll see you on the other side.
Kylee Chandler (02:24.812)
If you've ever wished you had a podcasting pro with nearly a decade of experience, whispering growth secrets into your ear, that's exactly what you'll get when you tune into podcast growth tools with me, your host, Kylie Chandler. This is the ultimate show for you. If you're ready to grow your podcast audience, skyrocket engagement, and turn your show into a traffic driving list building powerhouse. I've been in the podcasting world since 2015.
helping creators like Amy Porterfield grow their shows to over a million downloads a month. My superpower, breaking down proven podcast strategies and marketing techniques into step-by-step guidance you can actually implement without fluff, overwhelm or guesswork. On this show, we're getting real about what actually moves the needle when it comes to growing your podcast audience and using it to boost your email list growth. From actionable insights and expert interviews to behind the scenes secrets.
I'll help you turn your podcast into a traffic driving list growing machine. Grab your earbuds, hit subscribe, and let's take your podcast to the next level.
Kylee Chandler (03:37.144)
Today I am so excited to be with you Tracy Beavers. Hi, we're doing this together.
Tracy Beavers (03:44.238)
I'm so excited, Kylie. I'm excited to be here with you too.
Kylee Chandler (03:47.576)
Well, and it's so fun because I know this is going live on your podcast. It's going live on my podcast. And I always love demonstrating a podcast swap to my audience because I got so much good feedback on that episode and it makes sense. So here's a great demonstration of a podcast swap for you today.
Tracy Beavers (04:06.092)
love it. No, when you first told me you were doing these, I was like, that's really genius because, you know, we booked guests on our show and then you might as well get the most bang for your buck out of what you're doing. And then both of you get the recording and both of you can put it on your show and you only have to record it once. It's genius.
Kylee Chandler (04:24.405)
100%. Okay, Tracy, so I want you to kick it off. Introduce who you are, what you do, just a little bit about yourself.
Tracy Beavers (04:30.83)
Yeah, thanks. So I'm a business and sales coach from Little Rock, Arkansas. I'm also a wife, mom to two young adults. You and I were just talking about them before we kicked off the recording. I cannot believe that my kids are 27 and 22 and like navigating life like pros. It's just so cool. And John and I are in that phase where we're starting to be able to travel more. So that's exciting. But so what I do for business, I help established coaches
course creators and service providers. Build an organic visibility system that consistently brings in more list growth, because you know you and I are very much aligned on the list growth situation. And it consistently attracts those high paying clients that we all want to work with. And we do this without them being online 24 seven and also without having to think about buying ads.
Kylee Chandler (05:25.88)
I love that so much. I'm so excited to dive into that. I have questions for you.
Tracy Beavers (05:29.762)
I know. I have questions for you too. I want you to introduce yourself to my audience, please, ma'am. I would love
Kylee Chandler (05:34.604)
you. Okay. And so also a little fun tidbit, Tracy and I got to work intimately together. You were in my mastermind last summer in my beta group and it was so fun just to get to know you, your heart, your business and you were my Leanne Morgan of our community. And you just always brought the giggles and all that. So I just, I just adore you and if you work with me, great choice, great choice. But thank you.
I am a podcast marketing and growth expert. I've been in the industry for over a decade now and have gotten the opportunity to work with amazing podcasters like Amy Porterfield, Kathy Heller, Natalie Ellis of Boss Babe, and since then have supported 150 female podcasters in really focusing on taking their podcast and making it the cornerstone of their marketing so they don't have to be on social media all the time and they can really control their email list and then turn those subscribers
into paying customers. So it's been a fun journey and I just love what I do. I've had amazing success through just these marketing strategies. Like we grew Amy's podcast by 234%. One of my clients increased her revenue by 77 % after we implemented all of these strategies. So,
Tracy Beavers (06:52.238)
I love that and okay fun fact you and your husband are full-time RVers right?
Kylee Chandler (06:59.15)
almost full time. have to go Jax down in the summer for a few months. Yes, we do. live in a fifth wheel. We have an almost three year old daughter and another one on the way and we're not stopping. My friend just texted actually a lot of people. So will you be coming? Will you be moving back to Minnesota when you know number two and we're like, heck no. We were figuring out how we're going to make it work in this RV. We meet people and families who are like, I got four kids in the RV. And I'm like, okay, two is going to be more than enough for us.
We'll make it work again.
Tracy Beavers (07:30.072)
Right, right. That's exciting. So do you guys live in different places all year round?
Kylee Chandler (07:35.532)
Well, you know, we move around a little bit less now that we have a kiddo. so like we've been in southern Utah this whole winter. Yeah. We're going to go over to like Moab. And so we do some little we have the spots we like to go. My husband dirt bikes. We both mountain bike. So generally, we're just in the desert where we can mountain bike.
Tracy Beavers (07:55.02)
That's so cool. Is he also an entrepreneur like you?
Kylee Chandler (07:58.37)
He is a farmer in the summer, which is why we have to go back to Minnesota. And then he's a full-time daddy in the winter.
Tracy Beavers (08:04.714)
my gosh, that's so fun. All right. know, I know both of our, our sets of listeners are like ladies. We are here to learn list growth and podcasting. I'm here. I'm sitting here wanting to get into your personal life and talk about.
Kylee Chandler (08:17.79)
Okay, we're catching up. Okay, let me dive in first because you use a word that I want more clarity around for my audience. So you help established coaches, course creators build organic visibility system. What is the organic visibility system? Like, can you dive in? What does that look like? What makes that up?
Tracy Beavers (08:30.422)
Yeah. Okay. Yes.
Tracy Beavers (08:36.757)
Yeah, it's actually an ecosystem that I teach people how to build. And it is through my, have an eight week group coaching program called Business Visibility Made Easy that I developed after trying to run paid ads and wasting thousands and thousands of dollars. And I just got so frustrated with the whole process that I thought there has got to be more ways to build an email list other than just creating another lead magnet and putting it out on social media. And so back then,
Facebook was my platform of choice and it still is. It's where I've built my multi-six figure business all organically. Back then LinkedIn was a place to go find a job and Instagram, I wasn't on it. I didn't understand it. I was like, uh-uh. So I dove into Facebook and I developed over 10 strategies through that platform alone that when you layer them in the proper order that I teach, you actually build a visibility ecosystem that begins to turn on itself.
for you so that you don't have to think about, I need to spend 10 hours this week growing my list. You just go in and you do your daily activities, your weekly activities, and your list starts to grow and your leads start coming in automatically. It's really cool. But it's little things like there's so many communities and community is a big word for this year for 2026. I feel like the people that are going to be successful in business are the ones who are going to make those genuine human connections and build relationships.
and community. so Facebook groups, I mean, there are some amazing, there's some really icky ones, there are, but there's some really great ones where you can be visible and be of service, not promote anything. But if you have your Facebook personal profile dialed in the way that I teach, it's actually a list growth funnel for you. And it does the work for you. And all you have to do is show up and be your amazing self, answering questions, for example, about podcasting. You know, if you're in a Facebook group with a bunch of entrepreneurs and people are like,
My podcast isn't growing or, you know, what's a great way to leverage my podcast and you're there and you're answering their question. They're going to get curious about you, Kylie. And when they go to click on your personal profile, they slide right down to your email list. So it's things like that that end up creating this. I love to just call it an ecosystem because I feel like it gives everybody a great visual picture.
Kylee Chandler (10:53.71)
Okay, okay, so Facebook, I thought Facebook is dead.
Tracy Beavers (10:57.228)
Yeah, well, it's not. It is not. And people are sleeping on it. And I am here to tell you it is not. It is a great platform. I think there's three billion monthly users, if I'm not mistaken. That was the last stat that I saw. And our demographic, Kylie, online entrepreneurs, they are on Facebook and they're in Facebook groups, if they're smart.
You know, some people are stubborn and they're like, I like Instagram. Well, that's okay. That's cool. Instagram doesn't offer you communities. Right? So anyway, that I love Facebook for that for, for that reason alone is the communities. also with the strategies that I teach, you can take them over to other communities, ones that are housed on Kajabi or circle or heartbeat. So anyway, it's just fun to make sure that your social media profile is all dialed in to benefit you.
Kylee Chandler (11:50.184)
Well, it's so interesting because my husband, I never go on Facebook, but my husband loves, he's like, I don't like the social aspect at all. I want to be in the communities. That's where I find my dirt biking buddies and this and that. makes sense. I haven't dove into it. So now you might be in my ear saying that. So, okay. So if somebody wants to start on Facebook, would it be more beneficial?
for so, you know, for me, we have podcasters who are entrepreneurs, you have entrepreneurs in your audience. So if somebody wants to go to Facebook and start, what's the right way to go about this? Are they going and joining communities first and just like being a support and just mentioning like, you know, offering advice or are you going and you're starting your own group?
Tracy Beavers (12:38.752)
You could do either one. So I started my own free Facebook group. It's called be a confident entrepreneur And you're welcome to join us. We have your demographic is in that group We have over 4 000 members in the group So you can do your own group because the way I teach part of the ecosystem The way I teach you to set up the membership entry questions people want to give you their email address to be able to join the group So that is a list growth funnel for you having a free facebook group
but you don't have to start your own free group. The best place to start on Facebook is to, and your listeners can go look at my personal profile. You want to make sure that your personal profile is fully maxed out. Every nook and cranny of it is dialed in talking about who you are, who you serve and how, and your cover photo leads to your email list. That's the secret sauce of the personal profile. Once you have that done, then go into a couple of communities.
Don't do what I did. I joined like 10 or 12 groups and I ended up overwhelming myself. Now just pick two or three. If your audience is online entrepreneurs, come join mine and get the lay of the land. And if they allow promotion, promote in the thread or on the day they allow it. But other than that, Kylie, all you're doing is being of service. So like, for example, in my free group, if somebody said, oh, I'm thinking about starting a podcast. What's a great hosting platform?
Well, my stars, you could go in there and comment and say, Hey, you know, I, is what I help my students and clients navigate. I like Buzzsprout. I like to record on Riverside. I like, you know, da da da da da. And we use Descript for editing or whatever it is you guys do. And all you've done is help answer their question. But you've also planted a seed because you've said, I helped my clients and students do this. And so they, they know they're like, she's an expert. And if they ever want to hire somebody.
they're going to keep you in mind, especially if you're active in that group and they see your name a lot.
Kylee Chandler (14:36.494)
couldn't agree with you more that this is the year for community. I just think that people are craving those personalized touches. And I so I am not on Facebook yet. But I do like to use Instagram. And I just was on a call with my client this morning. We were talking about non social ways to grow her podcast. And she said, What do you use Instagram for? Because I know you're there. I know you're not posting a ton. And I said, I use it for the the direct message voice message. Yes.
Every time I see a I'm voice messaging them. And in my mentorship yesterday, I had two people literally say, Kylie, you voice messaged me. And then I thought, I'm going to go check out our podcast. I binge. And now I'm in your mastermind. And so it wasn't even I saw you posting Reels. I saw you posting on stories. was literally that's my favorite aspect. If we are going to talk about the social and I always invite them right away to join my newsletter or my newsletter. I'm like,
Let's get you off of social. Let's get you on my newsletter as quick as I can. But we can chat here and that works. So I love these strategies and I agree with you.
Tracy Beavers (15:44.846)
Okay, Kylie, so you just said something really cool about over on Instagram, but what you said also applies to Facebook that I love. It applies to LinkedIn if one of our listeners is big in LinkedIn and it's the DMs. I love connecting in the DMs, but I want you to go back and say what you said again about when somebody follows you, what's the process and what are you saying to open up that conversation?
Kylee Chandler (16:09.55)
Okay, yes, I love talking about this because while it is social, you can use this strategy and not be posting consistently on social or interacting all the time. So you are so right. Like I just taught in my mentorship yesterday. I called it girl real love marketing because here's what smaller I say smaller businesses, but smaller podcast businesses. Sometimes we have to do a little bit of footwork, a little bit of legwork. And these are great ways.
to create super fans for your podcast or to get them to grow your email list like you talk about really efficiently with people who are very engaged. So anytime I get a new follower, I have over there again, I literally have a template that my students can use that I use. can use on LinkedIn, you can use on Facebook, you can use that. And there's a couple ways I go about this. One, if you have a juicy newsletter, which
I'm not a big fan of like, especially because I'm in the podcast world, like sending out an email that's like, hey, I released a new podcast episode. Here's what it's about. People are going to check it out. Give them something juicy. Give them lifestyle. Give them industry updates. Oh, and by the way, give them the podcast episode if you have one. But my newsletter is that way. I know it's really juicy. I have like 60 % open rate. People love it. get it all the time. So I'm very proud of it. So when somebody follows me, I first start by sending them
a canned message that I have saved in Instagram. I think you can use that in other platforms as well. And it says, hey there. And I literally, I input their name and then it says, thank much for the follow. I'd love to know what my, what about my content stood out to you and how it can be supportive to you. Oh, and by the way, be sure to join my newsletter. And then if they get back to me, which of course you have a handful of people who don't, but I would say majority of people do respond. They say something yada yada.
I send them a voice message back because I want them to know for a couple reasons to do this. One, I want them to know that I am here for the voice message. Let's talk back and forth to a huge part of the strategy for growing your podcast, social media, not your social media, but website. Anything is having strong SEO words that are audience led, not owner led, not Tracy led, not Kylie led.
Kylee Chandler (18:29.942)
audience led. So when I can hear them telling me their struggles, what keeps them up at night, their biggest problem with their podcast, those are keywords for me and I can create a podcast episode from it. I can use those as my episode titles and I know they're going to be searching them. AI is going to start indexing me for those. So that is the beautiful, beautiful thing about doing the DM conversation. And then who knows where that's going to lead. You know, it could lead to a new client. It could lead
You know, and then again, you can remind them, be sure that you're on my newsletter or if you are a podcaster, you can literally say, well, you know, you mentioned this. actually have a podcast playlist specifically that I dive into teaching X, Y, Z. You mentioned it. Go ahead, grab it. So it's like the the opportunity with this is endless. And again, PA so craving like I can't tell you how many people are like, I can't believe you just
Like send me a voice message. You took the time to do it and it takes a minute or less.
Tracy Beavers (19:30.618)
Exactly. And you know what? You can do it anywhere. You can be out walking the dog and send them an audio. You could be riding your bike, although I don't recommend it. I take that back. don't think I think that's a dangerous example. Don't do that.
Kylee Chandler (19:45.262)
But yeah, it's true. the other cool thing is when you think about how long it may take you to create a real, we'll just go with Instagram since we're kind of on that. think about I'm not against reels and stories. Those are fine. And there's a place for them. But the amount of time it takes you to create a real, you could literally message, you know, 10, 20 people.
Tracy Beavers (20:05.774)
back. Correct. I was just having this conversation yesterday with Julie Solomon. I don't know if you follow Julie. She's amazing. But she was she she would love this conversation because essentially the people that were in the room with us were saying they needed more followers. They needed more followers. They needed more followers. And I was like, you don't have a leads problem. You have a conversion problem. And we need to go deeper.
with the people that are raising their hands to want to be connected to us. And that's what you're saying, Kylie, is this person, Tracy Beavers raised her hand by liking my post and you're doing it in a very genuine way. And the other thing I love about sending an audio is it's you and I can tell it's you and it's not a bot because there are like many chat drives me insane in the membrane. I can't stand it. I got caught up in somebody's many chat bot.
And they had said, DM me on Instagram. And here I am in this circus wheel of bot situation. And I finally just got frustrated and left. thought, well, they told me to DM them. That clearly isn't going to work. So, well. But yeah. But I love what you're saying because then that you are uncovering their needs, which that's sales 101.
Kylee Chandler (21:23.51)
too, because you mentioned MiniChat and MiniChat just what in the last month or so released where you can like now message a follower automatically with MiniChat. I haven't opted into it. I haven't done it because I do this manually. Now, the beautiful thing is on these platforms, you can save that canned message. So it's it's just as quick and all MiniChat, a MiniChat message looks different. So you can see so they can see it. So I think that that stands out to them as well. But yes.
Tracy Beavers (21:47.406)
Yes.
Tracy Beavers (21:53.102)
I think so too. I want to talk about podcasting for a second, because I know this is your jam and it's what you teach. And I know that you believe in growing the email list, whatever we're doing, whether it be being on Instagram and connecting with people in the DMS or drawing people into our list so that we can talk to them in the inbox. When it comes to your podcast, what are some of the biggest mistakes that you see podcasters making?
when they're trying to grow their email list using their podcast.
Kylee Chandler (22:24.526)
Well, first I think is not utilizing dynamic ad insertion. Okay. And really, well, actually I should back up. The problem that most people are doing is that they're not figuring out the topics, the keywords, the SEO rich keywords that their audience is craving, wanting, using in their daily life. Because the premise of everything we do must, that is the foundation. From there,
we create podcast episodes that are so discover organically discoverable for these people. And then they went to the podcast or we create lead magnets or playlists that are specifically speaking to this pain point. So we're just recording thinking we're doing episodes that I would like. So they would like, And then we're not using the keywords in the episode title. we're not organically getting discovered.
So nobody's actually discovering us to get onto our email list. And if they do, I don't even invite them to get on my list. And so I see a lot of podcasters kind of falling into that cycle. Other thing is just not using their podcast as like not creating lead magnets based on all of their on their podcast episodes.
Tracy Beavers (23:44.225)
Yeah.
Kylee Chandler (23:45.186)
This is content you've already created. Why create more of something? Give them a podcast playlist or bundle of sorts or create a podcast quiz and use that as a lead generation thing. Get them onto your email list first and then we can always nudge them about the podcast as much as we need. and by the way, I have this offer. so I think that that is a really big thing. And another thing is just people saying, well, I put it in my show notes, right?
Nobody reads show notes anymore on the platforms. Like, reading show notes. And so I would say those are the biggest. Uh-ohs that I see. Yeah.
Tracy Beavers (24:25.422)
So they need to say something in the audio, like, you know, if you're loving what I'm saying and you want to dive deeper into it, go grab my checklist and then you give them the very easy URL to remember. You're absolutely right, Kylie. The only time I will go to the show notes is if somebody has something that I really, really want and they're like, the link is in the show notes. And then I'm like, okay. But it's still an extra step. I wish they'd just tell me what the URL is. So you mentioned that podcast quiz. I know this is something you get so excited about.
and you really want your clients and students to do. What makes a quiz so powerful for podcasting and for growing the show?
Kylee Chandler (25:05.262)
Okay, this is a great question. So it's interesting because a podcast-centric quiz is great for growing the show, but more importantly, it's great for growing your email list and then getting those people who come through the quiz into whatever your offers are and the right offer for them. our ideal customers and our ideal listeners are all slightly nuanced. And the one thing that you have might not be
the perfect fit for them. But if you can not only bring them into your email list, oh, by the way, here's a playlist, a podcast playlist that's specifically made for you. Right. I think my client, Holly Haynes, has over 600 podcast episodes. Somebody comes in, they find her, they're new. They'll scroll through. They'll probably pick one that they like. Maybe it's not even her best. I mean, we all have those, right?
Tracy Beavers (25:57.838)
Yes.
Kylee Chandler (25:59.31)
And it's like, okay, I'll listen to that. Maybe I'll stick around. Maybe I won't. But if I say this playlist is specifically for you, I have 600 podcast episodes. Here's 10 episodes made for you based on your quiz results. They're going to binge those, right? It's the guide step by step. It's the whatever they need. And then they fall into that funnel where not only are they using the podcast, which is such a beautiful nurture tool, they get to learn who you are, maybe some personal tidbits, how you teach, how you coach.
your beliefs, like the things that make you, you and, that is what people really want, right? They want that relationship with the podcast host. It's like, it's like they can, they can hear you in their head eventually. So we're developing that relationship with them and then we're emailing them and we're nudging and we're giving them testimonials from our clients. And then we're like, by the way, I have this product that's so perfect for you based on your quiz, quiz results. So it goes so far beyond the podcast because when we can,
personalize their playlist for them. It's a no-brainer because now they're going to become a super fan because they just listened to 10 episodes that were so spot on for them. But now they're hooked to who you are and what you do.
Tracy Beavers (27:10.828)
love that. So that podcast quiz, because people love quizzes and they get to learn about themselves, but then you're also giving them this curated playlist. That feels really special. Similar to sending them an audio DM, that feels really special. Sending them a curated list of things that they're interested in and saving them that step of having to dig through 600 episodes, that's really special. You know what I mean? Yeah, I love that.
So let's talk about engagement with the podcast. Like getting, and I know you taught this last fall, that it's not so much about downloads anymore as it is about followers, right? Right. Is that true?
Kylee Chandler (27:55.03)
Yeah, I mean, when you were talking about somebody raising their hand, a follower clicks the button they want to follow, they want to subscribe, they want to raise their hand and be notified every time you have a new podcast out. Downloads still have some bots in them and they're up and down. Why? Because iOS update happens or a certain streaming platform goes away and we no longer have the downloads coming in from that. So it's very fickle.
Tracy Beavers (28:05.73)
Yeah.
Kylee Chandler (28:22.658)
But when we can think about followers or even engaged listeners or noticing patterns and metrics like that, how many people are coming from our podcast onto our email list? Those are the two things. Those are the things we want to see.
Tracy Beavers (28:36.856)
got it. So when some if somebody is they've created their podcast, they're all excited about it. And they're just not getting as much engagement. They're not getting as much list growth. They're not getting as many followers as they feel like they should. And what are some things that they could look to optimize that might help overcome that?
Kylee Chandler (28:54.178)
Good question. So first of all, I know I go back to this, but it's again, the foundation. You probably didn't do the research that you needed to do to figure out what your ideal, I say customer listener interchangeably, right? What words they're using, what words are searching, what words like strike their soul and make them say this podcast is for me. I have to give it a try. And so once you know those words, you can go back, you can add a tagline to your show name that
doesn't even have to be marketed anywhere else. It's purely for Apple and Spotify because Apple and Spotify are their own search platforms. They're not competing with Google. So yay, for us, we can use that to our advantage. Same with our description. We plug in our keywords in there and then every episode title is an opportunity for you to organically rank, be organically discoverable to your ideal person. those are all things that you have to have to do.
think the other thing also is just like assuming that you know the content your audience wants to hear based on what you think and you know. And again, it comes down to having those conversations. DM is a great way to do that. Or having quiz results that tell you about them. And then that's gonna lead, that's gonna be the lead for your podcast topics. And then it's gonna be a heck yes. Every topic, after every topic, after every topic. So.
Tracy Beavers (30:18.048)
Love that. There's some things that I know are overlooked. And we can't, gosh, we can't be perfect about everything in business, right? And this is why people hire you is because you help them figure out the things they've overlooked. what's a really cool, high impact way to promote the podcast? Because you know, I teach, I don't want you to be online 24 seven. And we've talked about that. How can I promote this podcast?
without feeling like I've got to post it all over social media all the time.
Kylee Chandler (30:50.478)
Okay, well, first all, we talked about organic discoverability, so we're not going to dive into that. But two other ways that are tried and true is become a guest on other people's podcasts, right? Do swaps if you need. Love those. The other thing is create relationships with other entrepreneurs who have communities. Go in and do a training in their community. And then give them a playlist that is an extension of what you taught. and by the way,
Tracy Beavers (31:10.574)
Yeah.
Kylee Chandler (31:18.382)
book a free consultation with me or anything like that or take my quiz. And so using those strategies works really so well. Those are tried and true. Those aren't going away. People want that opportunity to see you, get to know you, watch you teach all of those things as well. So I
Tracy Beavers (31:37.006)
totally agree with you, borrowing other people's audiences. A lot of people call it Bopa is the term I've heard tossed around in the last six months. But that's one of the strategies I teach in my ecosystem too is collaborations. I've gone live with people that do LinkedIn lives regularly. I've been a podcast guest, summit speaker, and going back to having those authentic conversations with people. That's where you uncover.
the potential for collaboration.
Kylee Chandler (32:07.278)
Yes, yes. That's I was going to ask Tracy is how do you start those conversations? Because I think it's one thing to speak and start a conversation with your ideal listener or customer. reaching out to other entrepreneurs can feel intimidating. Am I going to hear back? How do you reach out? Because we both probably get emails all day long from people who want to be on our podcast or this or that. It's like none of them feel authentic.
Tracy Beavers (32:31.468)
Right. They don't. I, in fact, bless their heart is all I can say because I think, I think there's somebody selling a pitch template because I'm not kidding, Kylie, the same week, two different people use the same email to pitch me. And I was like, my stars. Okay. You got this template. I don't even know. I, but I was like, it just gave me the ick, you know, as the kids say, it gave me the ick. So,
Kylee Chandler (32:51.384)
from Senate.
Tracy Beavers (33:01.624)
Yeah, so what I do is when I'm again going back to Facebook groups or let's talk about communities and Mighty Network circle heartbeat. If you're in a community where you know there are people in that community that share your same audience, then it is very easy in my opinion to slide into the DM send them if you're on Facebook, send them a friend request so they're far more likely to get your message. If you're on LinkedIn, send them a connect request. And then once they do, you could just say, Kylie,
You and I are both members of the Be a Confident Entrepreneur group with Tracy Beavers. I love the work this year. I love the messaging you have on your profile about helping podcasters grow their lists and use the podcast to grow their business. I share that same audience and this is what I do. Are you open to a collaboration? that be, do you want to set a 15 minute coffee chat and just talk about how we could each leverage each other's audiences to grow our own businesses?
That's a very genuine human way of saying, hey, I really like you. I like what you're doing. if somebody, you know, there are people that will still be rude about that, but those aren't my people. You know what I mean? Cause so if you just send them an audio so they can hear your voice, I think that's super powerful. But yeah, you just basically open it up with by emailing them or DMing them and saying, Hey, you've got a cool audience. I like what you do. I've got a cool audience.
You don't know what I do yet, but I think you might like it. Let's talk about working together.
Kylee Chandler (34:33.966)
I love that so much. And I agree. And again, going back to just being human and showing up and just, you know, talking about, you know, like, even if it's a, I saw you post about your family, you know, traveling to XYZ. I don't know if I was there recently, this coffee shop was great or, you know, just like letting that humanness come through as well stands out. The other thing I love to do is sometimes I'll create a loom video, just a short loom video.
introducing myself, you know, it's like, okay, she's human. did that for Kate Kordsmeier, and she's going to be coming on my podcast. And I'm just so excited that, you know, and she's not on social. And so that'll be another great conversation as well. Okay, Tracy, our lead magnets dead in 2026.
Tracy Beavers (35:17.996)
You know what? That's a really good question. And nobody's ever asked me that question.
I think that basically, now for me, a lead magnet, what I help my students understand is that having a free Facebook group, that's a lead magnet. Cause it's a top of funnel strategy that grows your list. Having a podcast to me is a lead magnet cause that's a top of funnel strategy. But I think there are some things that are, my audience is no longer looking for. They don't want a checklist. They don't want a cheat sheet. They want like a quiz, something juicy. They want,
a short video maybe with the checklist, you know, they want something that they're going to actually get a quick win from. So I think if your lead magnet is going to be truly a value, then yes, it's going to work. But if it is, Hey, just download my worksheet for 10 things to watch for yada, yada, yada. And it's something that they could find through AI. It's not going to resonate. Just like people are saying that courses are dead in 2026.
Courses are not dead. What's dead in that environment is the do it yourself course that you just buy and you have to sit there and do by yourself. And there's nobody there for you to ask your questions at. There's nobody there to say you're doing a great job. Yes, you're on the right track. And so the people that like you and I have been talking about, the people that are loving on their audience, they care about their students and clients. They're answering their questions. They're available.
those are the people that are going to shine in twenty twenty six so i don't believe that it's our debt but i'd to know your opinion kylie what do you think
Kylee Chandler (37:00.824)
Okay, well, I agree with you that I feel like the checklists, those types of things just aren't, they're overdone. Again, ChatGPT will give them a quicker answer without potentially on an email list they don't want to be on. However, what I have found is more of, if you can be like authoritative state of the union type freebie, like I did 2026 podcast marketing trends. And so, and that I've had like,
200 people sign up in like a month and a half, it, which is, which is good, you know, and, um, just started running ads to it too. And it's performing great in ads. My CP, my CPL is huge and low, really low, which is great. But so I think if you have that angle, it could work, but the checklist and stuff. No, what I will say I've been testing since I started, cause I really only started my business just over a year ago. was January of 2025. So it's been.
you're probably think back to that. It's like you test, right? You test a lot of things. And I knew I didn't want to get stuck in the rabbit hole of creating freebie after freebie that didn't perform. So I'm like, happens if I just create a really juicy newsletter and I promote how juicy my newsletter is and how it is. And that has been doing well. I use that a lot of places. I just drive people and I make it sound, I say, I figure out the industry updates as for
the podcaster so you don't have to stay on top of it. There's tidbits that are, you know, I keep you updated on network, you know, or networking opportunities and all the things. And I literally, like I said, my open rate is so good. So, so good, like 60%. And people email me all the time, just telling me how much they love my email. And I think people are moving towards that type of a newsletter. And I hope they are.
works so good as a free resource.
Tracy Beavers (38:59.79)
No, I really like your newsletter and I recently changed my emails. Gosh, it's probably been about 90 days now. I changed it up. The format's a little different. It's kind of like a newsletter where I give them a visibility and list growth tip. Then I tell them, I think I titled it something about what came out of my mouth on the pod this week. Tell them about my latest podcast episode and then.
You know what what happened over on my youtube channel? You know just being funny about it and and but then also showcasing People that are doing awesome things, you know, like when I'm an affiliate for Liz Wilcox And her email marketing membership I'm gonna put that in there or and then I also try to give them some glimpse of my personal life Which may not be a great idea because I am a little quirky
But I lately have been talking about the bird feeder camera that my husband got me for Christmas and all of the species of birds that are in our backyard and how I can identify them by sight and sound now. But anyway, it's funny. And I'll include a picture of, you know, like the one I did this week was a brown headed cowbird that was in the camera and he looked like he was doing the, you know, this electric slide or something the way way camera caught him. And I was like, I dance for my, I dance when my dinner arrives too little buddy.
Check out this bird.
Kylee Chandler (40:26.35)
that Tracy is, you know, it's like, I think of all the clients that say, should I do this? Because so many people are already talking about this and that. Sure. But they don't talk about it like you do. They don't have the shoulder that you do. And that's what sets you apart. And that's why people fall in love with you and want to continue to work with you and then refer you and then listen to your podcast and all the things. So I love that angle. I love it so much.
Tracy Beavers (40:51.566)
Thanks. So before we wrap this up, because I could talk to you all day and that I think our listeners might get tired of it, but I would not. I want you to share with everybody that's listening to my show right now. What's the name of your podcast and where's the best place to connect with you, Kylie?
Kylee Chandler (41:08.876)
Yeah. So I would say go so go to Apple Spotify, your favorite listening platform, typing podcast growth tools. And that's my podcast. So definitely be sure to hit the follow subscribe button there. If you want to connect with me on a deeper level, go to podcast marketing hub.com forward slash subscribe. Again, my newsletters are kind of the heart and pride of my my company. Sure, I use a little bit of AI to refine, but really, it's me, you know, speaking just like you, Tracy. And then go
me on Instagram, Kylie J Chandler and DM me. Let's talk. Just chat. I love, love, love meeting new people, hearing about your podcast, your goals, all the things. So yeah. And then you too, Tracy, please share where my audience can go and learn more about you. Yeah.
Tracy Beavers (41:54.766)
Thanks. So my podcast, we launched it about a year and a half or so ago. And I, you know, I don't know, I guess people just, it rose to top rank 5 % on ListenNotes, which I don't know if that's a big deal or not, but it makes me happy to know that people love the show. So it's called Create Online Business Success. And you can find it anywhere you listen to your podcasts. Also, I mentioned my free Facebook group, it's called Be a Confident Entrepreneur.
come join us. have over 4,000 online entrepreneurs and we do fun free events every month. do a live Q and A ask me anything for my members and I also do a free networking session for my members. It's the first Friday of every month and we usually have about 45 people that come and they love the breakout rooms and the music we play and the prizes we give away. And it's just so, it's so fun. You know, like we've been talking about, we've got to find ways to connect with our audience.
on a deeper level, especially in 2026. And those are two things that I added last fall in an effort to get to know my audience better. And it's been beautiful.
Kylee Chandler (42:59.436)
No, I love that. Well, Tracy, I think I love your approach to business. I love your approach to list building that how genuine you are and so proud of your podcast. I think it's so been so fun to watch it grow. And thank you so much for the opportunity to do a podcast swap. This was such a blast.
Tracy Beavers (43:17.388)
It was, it was so fun and I love your show too, Kylie, and your newsletter. I do, I read it every single time.
Kylee Chandler (43:23.427)
All right, Tracy. Well, best of luck with everything and we'll talk soon.
Tracy Beavers (43:28.13)
Yes ma'am.
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